Does ancient Egyptian history contradict the Bible? In this lesson, we investigate why the standard Egyptian chronology of history does not match the chronology given by the Bible. Specifically, we familiarize ourselves with the conventional chronology of ancient Egyptian history, consider the revised chronology proposed by Answers in Genesis and archaeologist David Down, and compare this chronology to the one asserted by David Rohl and Tim Mahoney in the Patterns of Evidence: Exodus documentary.
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hence seemingly not matching up with the conventionally understood Egyptian timeline of events the timeline accepted by most historians and archaeologists we’ve touched on this topic in our previous answers Bible curriculum classes we explored it a great deal during some of our summer Sunday School classes but we’re looking at it again today we’re looking at this chronology issue trying to answer questions like how could the flood have happened around 2350 BC if the great pyramids were built in 2600 BC why are the pyramids built before that doesn’t seem to match and why is it that there’s no evidence for Hebrews ever settling in Egypt much less leaving Egypt and mass with a great display of miraculous judgments why does Egyptian history contradict the Bible well the short answer is that Egyptian history does not contradict the Bible but in discussing how we need to remember a basic concept from our first quarter of the answers Bible curriculum which is this the Bible is God’s inerrant Word and it functions as our glasses for viewing everything including theories of history in archaeology if the timeline presented by historians and archaeologists contradicts the timeline that the Bible gives or indicates which timeline needs to be adjusted yeah obviously the the one that’s generated by man’s understanding we start with the Bible if we want well let me say this we do want to make sure that we do not say that the Bible says more than it does when and when we build the skoura calor scientific models or chronology based on the Bible we want to make sure that we don’t treat those chronologies or models ads in arat truth actually let me say models we don’t want to treat those as an air and truth only the Bible is completely true but if we won inaccurate historical or scientific understanding of our world we must start with and stick with what the Bible says we use the Bible’s as our glasses for saying endocrinology that’s positive by the world any scientific model that’s positive buyer world in today’s class we’re going to be listening to some arguments via movie clips from David down a Christian field archaeologist who has worked with answers in genesis and has published a number of books about Egyptian chronology here’s our outline for today’s class we’re going to first get a feel for it downs overall chronological view for Egypt’s history then we’ll listen to some of down specific arguments about how he sees Egyptian Egyptian historical figures interacting with the people of Genesis and Exodus and then if we have time we’ll briefly compare downsview of Egyptian chronology with the view that was presented by the film we saw during our summer Sunday School class the patterns of evidence Exodus produced by tim mahoney and very much reliant on the theories of david role so that’s our plan for today let’s pray as we begin father I thank you that your word is trustworthy Lord that we can and we must use it Lord to assess every idea every assertion that’s given to us in our world it’s your word that is the lamp it’s what lights up the darkness so God I pray that we would trust your word give me ability to explain well and give us the discernment Lord as we listen to these arguments about how Egyptian history fits with the Bible in Jesus name Amen okay let me start with a true/false question true or false secular historians agree upon a clear list of Egyptian kings I’ll say it again and then yeah I’ll talk about the answer true or false do secular secular historians agree about a clear list of Egyptian kings and the answer is false as you might expect when you’re standing afar removed ancient civilization and you only have fragments of what that civilization left behind there’s a lot of debate there’s a lot of debate among Egyptologists about who exactly ruled when and what those persons names were who came after them for example let’s say you find the name of a certain Pharaoh mentioned in a particular document it’s not necessarily clear from that one document whether that name is of a new Pharaoh one that you didn’t know about before or whether that name is just another name for a previous Pharaoh because fares did have multiple names one source I read said that they had as many as five or six names moreover did this Pharaoh begin raining after the previous Pharaoh or did he start raining before that Pharaoh died or was he actually raining in a different region at the same time as that other Pharaoh were there are two kingdoms two dynasties going on at the same time lots of questions there’s there’s a great amount of debate among Egyptologist on these questions still though it’s not as if or while there’s not complete agreement about the details of Egyptian history there is a strong consensus on the general timeline of Egyptian history his timeline has only changed slightly over the last 100 years here’s an example of a conventional ancient Egyptian timeline of history you’ll notice we have three main periods of strength and prosperity and then we have three dark periods of weakness and little historical record and then we have two other periods of book ending it I’ll go through the the timeline so first the kingdom of Egypt according to conventional chronologies is established around 3,000 BC but it’s not really powerful yet that’s just when the dynasties first appear and the Old Kingdom period begins around 2686 bc and lasts about five hundred years going to 21 2181 bc this is when Egypt first becomes a powerful Kingdom and this is where they do some of their great building projects like the pyramids it’s the age of the pyramids this is followed by an intermediate period of about 150 years the first Intermediate Period that’s that black space at 1.i p and then we have the Middle Kingdom now when the Middle Kingdom begins and ends is a little bit more debated than the other periods but the one chronology that I that I looked at here says the Middle Kingdom begins around 21 25 bc and goes to 1773 bc so about 350 years then there’s another intermediate period another period of weakness for about 200 years this time from out 1773 bc to 1550 bc and it’s not that during this intermediate period foreign invaders from the east known as the hick sauce came in and ruled egypt those hick sauce though are eventually driven out and then we have the New Kingdom period New Kingdom another about 500 year period from 1552 1069 bc and during this period Egypt’s controlled territory reaches its height they’re controlled territory reached south into modern-day Sudan and also east into the Middle East they controlled part of the Levant and some time a great wealth and power in Egypt and some of the most well-known Pharaoh’s like Ramses the second Rams use the great they come from the New Kingdom the New Kingdom period is followed by the longest of the intermediate periods about 400 years of darkness weakness and uncertainty that’s that third intermediate period 1069 bc to about 656 bc egypt n has one more period of semi-autonomous rule the late period from about 664 25 25 and then they become subdued by the Persians in 525 bc and ultimately conquered by the greeks and 332 bc that’s pretty much the end of ancient egypt so we have three as i said we have three main periods of strength and prosperity with three intervening periods of weakness and darkness and we have that formative early period and then the last gasp of the ancient egyptian kingdoms and through all these periods of time most Egyptologists see a generally linear progression of 31 ruling dynasties no dynasty is like a ruling house we have 31 dynasties in ancient Egyptian history and it’s relatively linear that is they see it most the time one dynasty rules at the time whenever that dynasty ends that’s when the next dynasty begins you see these numbers of those dynasties going along each period at the bottom so in the early period just dynasties one and two Old Kingdom dynasties three to six first Intermediate Period seven to ten maybe seven to eleven Middle Kingdom 11 and 12 or maybe 12 and 13 I put 11 to 13 their second second Intermediate Period 13 to 17 New Kingdom eighteen to twenty third intermediate 21 to 25 late 26 231 going to the Persian period a linear progression of dynasties so that’s our conventional view now there are some problems with this conventional timeline of Egypt when it comes to the Bible as we’ve noted first of all it’s too long Egypt begins far before when it should based on what the Bible tells us about the great flood and the dispersion at Babel at least what we’d expect great flood would be around 2350 BC so that’s far too early for Egypt to existed book and 3,000 second of all Egypt’s history features a number of problematic synchronism what’s a synchronism you ask well I’ll tell you it’s a moment in history that’s recorded by multiple peoples multiple kingdoms synchronism czar great for checking competing histories against one another if our understanding of history is correct then we should be able to make the synchronism for a certain battle let’s say we should be able to make it appear at the right time according to Egyptian history and at the right time according to say Babylonian history they both record this historic event so we just make our timelines we calibrate the timeline so that event appears at the same time for both nations but synchronism at least so far they do not always perfectly align even if you look the timelines you can’t make it match up perfectly so then you have to adjust one of the timelines you have to adjust one nations timeline to make it fit with the other nations and up to this point more way when it comes to those setting the Egypt in the Middle East more weight is given to Egypt’s history Egypt’s understood chronology than those of other nations it’s like Egypt is the watch by which you set the watches of the surrounding neighbors eight eight o’clock and Egypt is going to be the same time everywhere else if Egypt’s chronology is off however this leads to problems so we have these problematic synchronism even with this conventional timeline and then third Egypt’s history currently finds no place for a Hebrew migration into Egypt or Hebrew Exodus out of Egypt Bible seems to indicate that the exodus took place after the city of Ramses was built because the enslaved Israelites are recorded to have built that city and Egyptologists understand that that city was only built during the reign of Ramses the second in the New Kingdom archaeologists however I found no evidence of Hebrews living in Egypt during the New Kingdom so the exodus is dismissed as a fiction as is the Hebrew enslavement so how should Christians respond to this aunty biblical chronology we trust the Bible we know that something is off something is off with this chronology but what exactly well this is we’re going to talk about archaeologist David down David down has proposed a revised chronology that condenses Egyptian history by shortening some of the intermediate periods and by causing the dynasties to partially overlap one another so you can see an example or you can see a graphic illustrating his type of revision the linear dynasty is at the top of biblical timeline some events in the middle and then downs revised chronology now and argues that it’s not necessarily true that one dynasty past linearly to the other actually multiple dynasties ruled at the same time through Co regencies or they just rule in different places this is actually this goes along with recent discoveries about Egypt’s history many Egyptologists have seen that indeed at times in ancient Egypt you did have dynasties overlapping one another but they’ve only made minor alterations to their conventional chronology to the traditional chronology down says we need to do something a little bit more drastic if downs chronology is correct or at least more accurate than what is the conventionally accepted chronology then Egypt’s history would fit with a timeline from the Bible with a flood around 2350 BC and the various interactions of the patriarchs with Egypt working as a man we’re going to examine how specifically that happens in just a moment with some video clips but questions so far yeah really that’s a good question how are we defining a dynasty well the term dynasty actually comes from you may remember from beneath owes history he’s one of the he’s an Egyptian historian someone who claimed to be an Egyptian destroy anyways ancient Egyptian historian and he’s the one who first uses that term now the way he used it I believe was like a ruling family so not just one King going to the next but actually a series of kings and and then whenever that that family of Kings died off when there was no inherit or then it goes to the next dynasty though if I remember correctly many thought manathil may have used the term a little bit differently where it was kind of like it was just with a ruling family but really it was about Kings raining from a certain city and whenever they moved to a different city that usually meant you had a change in family so it’s kind of like those two terms are those two ways of seeing a dynasty were both working together one family usually rain from one city continually anyways that’s where we get that term and so we’re we’re looking at something like 11 ruling family other questions yeah yeah let me repeat that comment so even in the hieroglyphics we can see that Egypt was not United continually through its its history we have Upper and Lower Egypt and even in the Crown’s that the pharaohs were wearing as you were illustrating the bucket and the bowling pin sometimes they have both crowns meaning a united kingdom and sometimes they only wore one which means they only rule 11 section of Egypt and then actually that division of Egypt into its two kingdoms happens a number of times that Egypt’s history at least as far as I understand so certainly it’s consistent to say ahead not necessarily a linear progression of dynasties not all the time other questions ok let’s we can queue up the video clips now Khalif the first Israelite interaction with Egypt actually came about in Israel’s forefather Abraham recalled that Abraham then called Abram this is in Genesis 12 he’s sojourned in Egypt for a little while due to famine and while there Abraham lied about his relationship to Sarai and brought a curse down on Pharaoh because of it but something else may have happened during that interaction based on what we understand or some of the details we understand from history so let’s see this first clip from David down that’s him over there where he’s going to talk about Abraham and Egypt there is one very interesting aspect of this pyramid people often ask me how old are the pyramids well by the usually accepted chronology these pyramids were built about 2600 BC but if we accept the biblical chronology it means that the universal flood occurred about 2300 BC now that means that this pyramid would have to be later than that in fact according to dr.
Immanuel Velikovsky revised chronology it would place it about the 19th century BC and that would be about the time that Abraham visited Egypt you know you have the record in the book of genesis of abraham coming down here to egypt and talking with the fairer and so forth now remember where Abraham came from it came from or as the kaldi’s and cylinder bullies excavations there from 19 20 22 1934 revealed that the Sumerian civilization was the world’s first civilization and they had a remarkable understanding of mathematics and astronomy and trigonometry and other sciences well now Josephus the Jewish historian made a very interesting statement and I want you to listen to what that statement says Abraham communicated to them that is the Egyptians arithmetic and delivered to them the science of astronomy for before Abraham came into Egypt they were unacquainted with those parts of learning for that science came from the Chaldeans into Egypt so if that is correct and Abraham came here during the time of Khufu that would explain something very interesting you see this pyramid is exactly square it is exactly level it is exactly orientated north south east and west and if you were to take a circle with the top of the pyramid as the center of the circle and apply the formula 2 pi r you would find that that would be the exact circumference of the base of the pyramid on there either that’s a remarkable coincidence or it means that the Egyptians at this time new the formula 2 PI R and where did they get it from well if Abraham imparted to them this knowledge that would explain it all and so it raises the interesting possibility that the Egyptians may indeed as Josephus says have learned their astronomy and their mathematics from Abraham who brought it from ur of the cow they use okay pause there we’ll talk about that clip here down suggest that Abraham may have given what to the Egyptians I think I heard a number of different things but yeah the mathematics or we have various types of math skills now does the Bible say he did this no it doesn’t doesn’t make any comment about that you go back to Genesis 12 you’ll see anything about the sciences so why does down assert that it actually may be the case Bible doesn’t say let me um I’ll get back to you just like a George ok so the pyramid demonstrates a lot of math knowledge their various aspects of the pyramid that show that it was constructed with mathematical understanding so that’s part of it what were you gonna say George say that again that’s right so the ancient historian Josephus remember he’s writing in Roman times he made this claim that Abraham did indeed part in part math to advanced math to the Egyptians now that’s a little bit more reasonable based on where Abraham came from right it says the Abraham came from chaldea chaldea the Sumerian civilization being the first if not are being one of the first if not the first civilization archaeological excavations in Sumer showed that the Sumerians were advanced in their Sciences of math and astronomy and somehow their knowledge was transferred to Egypt well the Bible tells us that Abraham Abram at that time journeyed from Sumeria to Egypt from Mesopotamia to Egypt and so it’s possible that he was the one that communicated those things to the Egyptians he says oh I already know about this stuff you guys are interested in building big buildings you should use some math or I don’t know exactly how the conversation went down but yeah it was Josephus who makes this claim and that fits with some of what we’ve seen archaeologically about mesopotamia and samaria now though this is the possibility how dogmatic should we be about this point not very dogmatic these are extra biblical speculations based on some of the things that we understand from the Bible but this is speculation we do have though an alternative explanation as to when and how the Egyptians built the pyramids oh I almost forgot to say another reason why he why he gives credibility to this assertion is that in a revised chronology the pyramids would have been built around the time of Abraham so that that fits also with that knowledge coming from Mesopotamia Sumeria at that time that mathematics knowledge to be able to build a pyramid so again Abraham could have been the conveyor of that information but that’s just a possibility we’re not going to two per super dogmatic about that but what about the next patriarch to go down Egypt Joseph we’re going to watch a longer clip now on how down sees Joseph interacting with the historical dynasties of Egypt this is a nine minute clip but we’re going to start at 327 if we can so about six minutes this well is at the foot of the hill on we person than we have to do all this then Joseph and so Joseph was appointed as the Vizier of Egypt now the question is who was this Pharaoh which one I personally consider that the chronology of Egypt needs to be shortened and in that case this incident would take place at the beginning of the twelfth dynasty of Egypt and in particular the Pharaoh concerned would be the Pharaoh called Sesostris the first and I think I have some good reasons for thinking that this is a statue of the sorceress the first actually he’s quite a nice-looking guy don’t you think almost a smile on his face and there’s another group of statues in the Cairo Museum they’re custard around a shrine there’s ten statues all together and they are all identical and they show him also as a nice-looking fellow and there’s another statue that shows him as a shepherd with a shepherd’s crook in his hand in other words he was looking after his people he had an interest in his people now he was the one who made this obelisk over here and it has inscriptions on all four sides they’re all identical and this was the first large obelisk that was ever made now it is called the pillar of on and the biblical record says that Joseph married the daughter of the priest of on and that fits right in in this place here and so I would identify sasai stress the first as the Pharaoh under whom Joseph was promoted to be busier now there is something else the biblical record indicates that Joseph was a very prominent figure I’d like you to listen to what the biblical record says in the book of Genesis chapter 41 then Pharaoh said to Joseph you shall be over my house on all my people shall be ruled according to your word only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you and he had him ride in the second chariot which he had and they cried out before him bow the knee so he set him over all the land of Egypt now did you notice just what respect was paid to Joseph people bowed down in front of him now that didn’t usually happen with a Vizier but it so happens that under ciseaux stress the first we know from history that there was such a Vizier and his name was meant to hotep the very well known Egyptologist broached described the activities of this Vizier I want you to listen to what it says in a word our men to hotep who was also invested with several priestly dignities and was Pharaoh’s treasurer appears as the alter ego of the King when he arrived the great personages bowed down before him so you see this fits in very well with the biblical account and we do have such a Vizier under sasur stress the first but there’s other evidence to to support what I’m saying well here we are in the volume this remarkable oasis that support so many people and here I think is something very significant you see this canal it’s a very large canal and it comes a long way and flows into this oasis which is below sea level and it is a vast Lake and it brings fertility to this whole area now the interesting part is that this is called josephs canal and nobody knows where it got that name it seems to go back a long way and it is my opinion that this canal which was dug during the 12th dynasty the early 12th dynasty was dug during the time of Joseph who knew that a seven-year famine was coming and so he had this canal Doug to provide fertility to the land of Egypt during this time now there’s something else I think is very significant and that is further downstream is a place called Beni Hasan and at Beni Hasan there are some tombs and one of these tombs has on the wall a beautiful painting what it used to be beautiful its faded now of some Semitic immigrants who had come into Egypt and there it shows the type of clothing they wore the type of domestic animals they had the type of weapons and you’ll even notice that this fellow had brought his portable TV with him well actually it’s a musical instrument anyway so this shows the Semitic immigrants during the 12th dynasty now who were they I don’t say that they were joseph and his family but i do consider it highly likely that they were the Israelite people who had fanned out over the land and this man thought it’s significant enough to put it on the wall of his tomb now there’s one more thing I want to tell you about one of these tombs was made by a man by the name of M&E and here also is during the time of Sisyphus the first and he left on the wall of his tomb a record of his good deeds that’s what they mostly did you know told the gods what a good fellow they were and among other things he referred to what he did to prepare for a coming famine now Jen will read you a statement from a historian and a translation of this wall inscription no one was unhappy in my days not even in the years of famine for I had tilled all the fields of the gnome of ma up to its southern and northern frontiers thus I prolong the life of its inhabitants and preserved the food which it produced and so I consider all of this points to the fact that sasur stress the first was the Pharaoh under whom Joseph was the Vizier of Egypt ok let’s talk about the argument he’s laying out here during which Egyptian dynasty does down suggest Joseph was alive one number number 12 the 12th dynasty now down asserts that so sorceress the first also known as soonest read the first was Joseph’s Pharaoh and it gives a number of reasons for that for making that assertion what was one of them first of all there’s the statues right what did he notice about the statues of cesaro’s the first hose that well they did look very similar to one another but how do they portray the Pharaoh yeah Shepherd and I was a pretty nice looking guy he’s got that smile on his face so he sees him as somebody that was well liked by his people that helped preserve his people shepherded just people that fits with the Pharaoh of Joseph’s time what else yes d that’s right a uniquely prestigious Vizier served under sir sorceress the first there are a number of his ears in Egypt’s history sometimes multiple of these years for one Pharaoh but none of them would get that kind of treatment that Joseph got in the Bible but men to hotep was one of those he has people bowing before him he’s described as an alter ego of Pharaoh that’s significant what else yeah Roy on yeah yeah yeahs on the priesthood on he was married to the daughter of the priest of on and then we have the pillar of on which is the first big obelisk that was ever built in Egypt and that was apparently built during the reign as a sorceress first there are a couple of other reasons he presents josephs canal was dug in the early 12th dynasty so that fits or that could be under the time of this Pharaoh since he was from the 12th dynasty the amur group painting that tomb painting of the Semitic people is from the 12th dynasty also around the time of this Pharaoh and then you have the tomb of a meany another official in Egypt who reigned during the time as a sorceress the first and he talks about preparations for famine so there are some pieces of evidence that do fit with the sauce was the first being the Pharaoh of Joseph the notice that some of the evidence that the words presented in this film are also presented in the patterns of evidence film they all come from the 12th dynasty now what about Israel’s enslavement in Egypt when in Egyptian history did that happen is there any evidence for well we’re going to move on to the next clip now about three and a half minute clip talk about Moses in Egypt now we come to the fifth king of the 12th dynasty whose name was a sorceress the third and I consider him to be the Pharaoh referred to in the book of Exodus chapter 1 and in verse 8 where it says now there arose a new king over Egypt who did not know Joseph and he said to his people look the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we come let us deal wisely with them therefore they set taskmasters over them to afflict them well I consider that by now Joseph would be dead and this would be the Pharaoh referred to in this verse and believe me he’s a nasty-looking character just the sort of fellow you would expect to do this sort of thing for instance there is this statue of him in the Cairo Museum do you notice the down turn sour mouth that he’s got and the nasty expression and then here’s another statue of him a similar appearance and then here is this Sphinx of him I just wouldn’t like to know this fellow and I think he’s the Pharaoh referred to here so sorceress the third was followed by a minim hit the third and he also was a nasty looking character as his statues indicate his one for instance in the Luxor Museum and he reigned for 43 years this is his pyramid that he built here not a very big pyramid today but originally it was covered with stone and a lot bigger than this today all that is left is the core of the pyramid which is made of mud bricks that are laced with straw in fact you can see the little flecks of straw that were in there and after all that’s what we would expect isn’t it because here in Exodus chapter 5 and in verse 7 it says you shall no longer give the people straw to make brick as heretofore let them go and gather straw for themselves so I think that this was the Pharaoh who was responsible for this another interesting point is that a minim hit the third had a daughter no sons and that daughter had no children her name was sibuk nephew ray and this would explain why she went down to the river nile and saw the little baby Moses in the basket there you might wonder well now why would an Egyptian princess take a little baby from the slaves and proposed to make him the next Pharaoh well you see she wasn’t down there having a bath or taking a swim she was down there for ceremonial purposes worshiping the god happy the river god the Nile God and he was the fertility God and of course she need a god like that if she was infertile and so she was down there worshiping the god happy the fertility God all right and so she sees this sort of baby comes along and regards it as a gift of the fertility God happy and I think probably she called him happy Moses you see Moses means drawn out of or born off in other words born of the river god happy there are a number of Farrah’s called that for instance there was taught Moses born of the god tut there was ramos asur Ramses born of the godhra so here we have Moses born of the god happy well he was the baby who because to become the next Pharaoh but he disappears off the scene and it’s not hard to understand why there was a king by the name of a minim hat the fourth who was intended to be the heir of a menem had the third but suddenly disappears from the scene I think that was motors myself because he was forced to flee at the end of this man’s rain and so we come to the end of this dynasty and I think it fits him very well with what we know of the biblical history okay so more connections being made between these Egyptian dynasties and the events of the Bible down mentions two more pharaohs from the 12th dynasty in this clip and these time he proposes that these were the enslavers of israel so sorceress the third also known as the news were at the third and am enema hat the third now why these two Pharaoh’s let’s review what evidence he presented do you remember what was one of them why do you say probably these two fares yeah Rob okay going back to the statues he mentions that both of them look pretty nasty and grim looking in their statues they look unhappy and these downturn mouths okay so there’s that what else well there’s the mud-brick notice that a madam hat the Third’s pyramid its core had mud brick with straw in it which is consistent with the types of building materials the Hebrews were instructed to make though you may remember from the patterns of evidence movie that mud brick with straw was used throughout Egypt Egypt history so this isn’t the strongest piece of evidence but nonetheless it is there then there’s a Menem hot the Third’s family situation what did he mention about amendment at the Third’s family sherion that’s right a daughter and no sons the daughters name was so brick Sobek neferu he calls her subic neferu ray she had no children and considering her need to prolong her royal dynasty she would have wanted a child especially a son very badly and if she is indeed the princess of Pharaoh mentioned extras too then her actions in Exodus to makes sense because why did Pharaoh’s daughter according to down go down to bathe in denial yeah I was religious ceremony is part of worshiping the fertility god the god of the Nile happy it was part of him right and so why then did she did she accept would she have accepted Moses as her son yeah she he would have been seen by her as a gift from the god happy she’s like I need a child and then being miraculously this child comes out from the water this child comes out from the Nile in a little basket to her it was like obviously this is the divine answer but of course we know from what the Bible says this was just God sovereignly arranging amazingly circumstances to get a Hebrew to be in the ruling House of Egypt so a minimum at the third is unique Pharaon that he has this daughter who didn’t have any children she would have fit with the description of Pharaohs princess in Exodus two and then we have a mendham hat the fourth who does appear in history but then kind of disappears without much explanation his relationship to men hat the third according to historians is a little bit unclear it could have been a son a grandson or a stepson or even we could posit an adopted son through so BEC neferu and I met him at the fourth is an alternate name for Moses now I’m Adam had the fourth like I said asteroids don’t know what happened to him they never found his tomb or they haven’t found his tomb yet though one site has been suggested as a possibility for his tomb it may be because he’s Moses and he ran away from Pharaoh and then Pharaoh is stuck with that same situation he had which is no air just a daughter so those are some of the reasons presented here one more video clip what about evidence for Hebrews living in Egypt and leaving Egypt let’s take a look at this five-minute clip about five minute clip that talks about the exodus in Egypt exodus from Egypt well now we’re visiting the tomb of sassafras the second you see it over there in the distance also mud brick pyramid and this particular pyramid was made by socialists second and it was excavated by sir flinders petrie in the year 1891 and Rosalie David published a book only in 1986 in which she highlighted some of the discoveries made by Petry and he found that there was an entire city here which was occupied by Semitic slaves if you please we’ll go to the top of the pyramid and I’ll point out the city from there well I don’t want to have to climb that pyramid every hot summer day but from here you can look out and see where the temple was and where the city was that Petrie excavated now he found evidence there that it had been occupied by the workmen who lived and who worked on building these pyramids and he concluded from the evidence that they were Semitic slaves now there’s something else that he found to this book by Egyptologist Rosalie David was only published in 1986 and it is on the people who built the pyramids the actual workmen you see it has in particular here a chapter called the foreign population at Cahoon and it says from his excavations at Cahoon Petrie formed the opinion that a certain element of the population there had come from outside Egypt now the archaeologists couldn’t figure out who this foreign population were it says here it is apparent that the Asiatics now an Asiatic is a term that the Egyptians used for somebody from Syria or Palestine or somewhere in that region the Asiatics were present in the town in some numbers and this may have reflected the situation elsewhere in Egypt it can be stated that these people were loosely class by Egyptians as asiatics although their exact homeland in Syria or Palestine cannot be determined now the reason that they could not determine it is because I consider they have the wrong chronology and therefore they did not associate them with the Israelite slaves I believe they should be identified as the Israelite slaves it says the reason for their presence in Egypt remains unclear in other words we don’t know who they were or how they came to be in Egypt but put it with the biblical account and you have the answer they were enslaved by the Pharaoh of particular interest I think is something that Petrie found under the floors there there were boxes you see the picture of the very well preserved and this box was found under the floor as boxes were under many of the floors of the homes and it says larger wooden boxes probably used originally to store clothing and other possessions were discovered underneath the floors of many houses that can two at Cahoon they contained babies sometimes buried two or three to a box and aged only a few months at death’s I think that’s very significant how did they get there well we know from the biblical record that Pharaoh decreed that all the baby boys were to be put to death at birth some of the mothers managed to look after their babies for a month or two or three months as with Moses but then I can see the Egyptians coming along wrenching them from the arms of the Israelite mother’s killing them and the loving parents burying them in these boxes under their floors one more significant point about this is as to where all these Asiatic slaves went to interesting listen there are different opinions of how this first period of occupation at Cahoon drew to a close the quantity range and type of articles of everyday use which were left behind in the houses may indeed suggest that the departure was sudden and unpremeditated now how can slaves just suddenly pack up and leave just drop everything and leave and here’s the evidence that this is what happened it’s unbelievable unless you accept the biblical account that all these Israelite slaves just suddenly left Egypt in the great Exodus movement okay let’s talk about this last clip what kind of evidence does down present for an Israelite presence or a Hebrew presence in Egypt with one thing that he mentions well in the previous clip you did mention the the mud brick with straw being used as part of the pyramid and this one he talks about so sorceress the second pyramid in the surrounding city around it but there was something about the population of that city that was significant yeah sherion right we had asiatics some Semites of some kind were living and were part of the workmen for building that pyramid or for building pyramids like that then he talks a lot about flinders petrie excavations and another archaeologists comment on those excavations about the site of Cahoon the city of Cahoon where there again we have evidence of a Semitic population even Semitic slaves what else did he mention something about boxes we had these boxes on the floor of many of the homes in Cahoon and these boxes were filled with babies remains infants remains just one two three month old infants and that fits with what the Bible says about Pharaoh’s plan to kill all the Hebrew boys the Egyptians were to kill all the Hebrew boys and then there was a sudden departure of the slave population from Cahoon these Semitic slaves they just suddenly left and they left all kinds of items behind which doesn’t really make sense why would slaves be able to leave like that and why would they leave so much behind it was a sudden unpremeditated departure but why is it as down notes why is it the archaeologists do not connect these Semitic slaves with the Hebrews that’s right because there it doesn’t fit with their chronology they say this is too early for the Hebrews to be in Egypt and so these can’t be Hebrews so in summary down gives us some reasonable answers to the objections or to the objection and Egyptian history and chronology do not fit with the Bible actually certain Egyptian pharaohs and events line up very well with the Bible if one is willing to let go of certain chronological assumptions most important of all down starts his investigation as most important for us to note down starts his investigation and explanation for his answer by trusting in the historical account of the Bible which we all must do no matter if we completely agree with what down says or if we would say something slightly different in defense the Bible we have to start with and stick with what the Bible says and then assess information now as you’re listening this material today you might have been wondering well how does this fit with what we already saw in the patterns of evidence documentary patterns of evidence Exodus don’t have time to fully explore that but allow me to this note some basic similarities and basic differences between these two defenses these two defenses of the Bible when it comes to Egypt’s history you notice though that they’re mostly similar and both suggest both down in the videos we saw and David roll and Tim Mahoney they support some revision of the conventional Egyptian chronology including shortening the dark periods shortening some of the dark periods and moving back the exodus date extras they would say not in 1250 but earlier during the earth around 1450 they also both suggest that Joseph Farrow appeared during the 12th dynasty of Egypt and that the exodus took place during the Middle Kingdom period and not the new kingdom these are some of the main similarities between these two approaches but there are some differences they differ on who exactly was Joseph Farah you may remember from the patterns of avenues DVD the name of the Pharaoh down asserts the sorceress the first as Joseph Farrow but role in Mahoney say that Joseph Farah was either so sorceress the third or a mendham hat the third and those are the ones that down says were the enslaving Pharaoh’s but a role in Mahoney they interpret the latter Pharaoh’s frowning kind of dour statutes is not a sign of malice or of not being well-liked by the people but of the troubles that went that were part of that pharaoh’s reign they had to deal with severe famine these were careworn faces that’s the way they interpret it but nevertheless this Pharaoh all of these fairs are part of the 12th dynasty also there’s a difference in terms of when in the dynastic when in the dynasties the exodus occurred down supports an exodus at the end of the 12th dynasty after the rains of ax men after the reign of a men who had the third while Roland Mahoney supporting Exodus during the 13th dynasty though both of these are right before at the beginning of the second Intermediate Period which you remember from the patterns of evidence DVD makes sense because of what happens in the Bible you would expect Egyptian society to be severely weakened a collapse of Egyptian strength and prosperity and that makes sense with an intermediate period especially one where foreign invaders take over Egypt that would come right after the Pharaoh of the exodus now if you miss the patterns of evidence film or if you’d like to see a greater amassing of evidence for Israel’s experience in Egypt if you want to see more evidence for why based on the Middle Kingdom information archaeology from the Middle Kingdom you can see lots of things pointing to the Hebrews in Egypt you can check out the patterns of evidence DVD from our lending library and you can also stream the film on netflix if you have netflix it is now on netflix patterns evidence exodus there are of course other approaches to answering the question of egyptian evidence for Israel and the exodus even with what we’ve looked at today there’s some really interesting things there some reasonable explanations to skeptical questions and objections but again we don’t want to be too dogmatic with any of these explanations we should we would probably be safe to say the things that are the same and in many apologetic approaches to this question that is that it’s the evidence I’m sorry the events of the Bible inter interacting with Joseph and his descendants in Egypt is probably taking place during the Middle Kingdom period because that’s where we see evidence of Semitic population in Egypt when exactly during the Middle Kingdom period there’s some debate but probably the 12th dynasty for Joseph and I to the end of the 12 dynasty or the 13th dynasty for the exodus again don’t be too dogmatic about those things we just know that there is an explanation there are reasonable explanations for the question of Israel in Egypt it’s not simply out there’s no evidence Bibles of fiction no no there’s actually a lots there’s a lot of things that are that are worth considering when it comes to that question bottom line when it comes to understanding history we must start with the Bible and then assess everything else that we hear or see using the Bible final comments or questions on this topic it’s pretty amazing though I mean just going back to some of the things that we heard just the way that God moved in history if indeed some of the Pharaohs or some of the events they talked about the evidence that those are the actual people of the Bible it’s just pretty amazing the way that God arranged sovereignly that Pharaoh to be the Pharaoh the ruling Pharaoh or that daughter of Pharaoh to have no children go down to the water he precisely arranged those things to bring about his grand purpose of giving himself glory delivering the people of Israel out of Egypt by great and wondrous signs you can say something about okay okay so you’re asking for what’s the summary yeah what’s the big picture between what we saw today from down and the patterns of evidence DVD I said a little bit about it already but just to make it even even more clear the main takeaway for us to see is that the reason most egyptologists and archaeologists don’t see any evidence for the Bible’s account of interactions with Egypt is because they say the chronology doesn’t support it they say this is too early for Hebrews to be in Egypt and therefore even though these things look like they might be the Hebrews when we do the archaeological digs they can’t be because the chronology doesn’t allow in response the basic response of those who trust the Bible would be to say well you need to let go of some of your chronology assumptions maybe the exes didn’t take place in the New Kingdom as you’ve long said it did because look we have lots of evidence pointing to Hebrews living in Egypt and an exodus from Egypt during the Middle Kingdom period that’s basically the that’s basically that basically summarizes the two approaches of the both down and the david role and tim mahoney in the patterns of evidence DVD film there’s lots of evidence of Israel in the Middle Kingdom but archaeologists don’t don’t acknowledge that because they say no it it’s too early a good question though other questions or comments ok they think is something else you can come talk to me about it afterwards we actually finished with our memory verse today so we’ll be getting a new memory verse next week Genesis 15 19 to 20 was our memory verse hopefully you’ve been meditating on that memorizing that because really it is such a it’s meant to be I think such a sweet comfort and an empowering promise for us when you go through and when I go through those there’s trials that just need to go on and on or even they’re just short-term trials a little something I say ah my back really hurts today or oh why do I have this cold and life just seems so difficult remember God is actually using those circumstances and even the things that people do against you or you’re good because that’s what you did with Joseph and that’s what he does with all his people for your good and for his glory we can cling to the promise that Joseph did next week we jump back in Exodus and God’s call to Moses but close today let’s close in prayer father you are the master of history you’re the master of the world no one can oppose you and when they do god they only fulfill your plans well we thank you that we can trust your word and Lord as we would expect these things really did happen even even the archeology and history Lord we see that the pieces of evidence pointing to it you really did bring the people of Egypt over the people visual down to Egypt you really didn’t multiply them to such an extent that they Egyptians became so afraid of Israel it became so afraid of this miraculously grown population that they can only think to enslave them but that was all part of your purpose because you were going to bring them out and you’re going to leave it as a testimony for the rest of redemptive history look at how I’m able to deliver my people lord thank you that you have delivered us from sin and that you have saved us Lord we want to become more like you we want to follow after you and we want to trust you as Joseph trusted you and during the days of difficulty and load we want to be a light for you we want to show others how worthy you are to be worshipped to be obeyed that they might repent and believe so God make us bold make us holy like yourself and let us enjoy you today in Jesus name Amen